I just received a request from my friend, JL Pritchard, who runs a great blog called All Financial Matters. I have the question and my response below. This is a great financial blog that I highly recommend to you. He does a lot of great giveaways and offers solid financial advice on a variety of topics. I use it as a resource myself. Check it out at: http://www.allfinancialmatters.com
—
Larry Winget’s Thoughts on ‘Poor Boomers’ Comments
By JLP | December 22, 2008
Recently, ‘Poor Boomer’ left the following comments on AFM about education:
Poor Boomer:
What’s with all the education hype? I have an awful lot of education and a minimum wage income – so what’s so great about education?
JLP:
Poor Boomer,
Education does not equal a great income.
Have you ever asked yourself why you only make minimum wage?
Poor Boomer:
It’s obvious why I make only minimum wage – I have no marketable skills and no career-related experience. (I got a liberal arts degree with law school in mind, but couldn’t afford law school, so my degree is now worthless.)
His answer bugged me so I sent him an email and asked him if I could post about his experience. This was his response:
Hi, no problem – you’re welcome to it. I think a college education is, generally, an excellent investment, BUT one entailing huge downside risks. I can now say that NOT seeking an internship in college (I was sure I couldn’t afford unpaid work) was one of my biggest mistakes. Also, I think there is a moderate time window in which one must “do something” with their education or degree in order to have meaningful career prospects. This time window for me lasted roughly five years, during which obtaining an interview was not especially difficult. After roughly five years, the interviews abruptly stopped coming.
Instead of me addressing this myself, I decided to ask Larry Winget for his help. For those of you not familiar with Larry, he has written a ton of best-selling books. His latest, People Are Idiots and I Can Prove It!, will be released next week (see Larry’s website for details on special he’s running). I like Larry’s style because he doesn’t sugar-coat his advice. He tells it like it is.
So, I sent Larry an email asking him for his opinion and this was his response:
I hear this argument a lot. Rarely do people actually work in the field in which they get a degree. Degrees in education, liberal arts and the like are typically not the educational path to high-paying jobs. In fact, in my opinion, the whole reason for a college degree is the education in discipline it requires to get the degree – not what your area of studies were. It takes personal discipline, personal responsibility and accountability, the ability/willingness to study, the time and effort to get to class and sit through class, the skills to test, the ability to work with others, the ability to set a goal and achieve it, to manage your time and a variety of tasks, and on and on and on. Those skills are the skills most beneficial from earning a college degree and those are the skills that can make you rich if applied.
People need to realize that “being excellent” at something that no one is willing to pay for is of little value if you measure success in terms of financial achievement (and most of us do.) One really marketable skill – again one and only one – can make you rich.
If someone has a real desire to be successful, all they have to do is ask themselves what skills are people willing to pay for? I will guarantee they are the skills I listed above. All other specific/technical/job-related skills can be taught and most employers are more than willing to teach job-related skills to anyone who has the ability to set and achieve goals, be responsible, manage their time, handle a variety of tasks, work well with others and so on.
Another comment on the posting is this: Anyone – again ANYONE who makes minimum wage is only putting out minimum effort. Tough approach I know, but it is true. Minimum wage jobs are STARTING places – they are entry level jobs into the employment pool. The people who get them and stay in them are the people who aren’t willing to go beyond minimum effort and show their employer they have more than minimum skills.
By the way, my degree is in Library Science. Do you think I would be where I am today utilizing all the marketable skills I learned in that degree program? No. I never worked a day with that degree. I also never used it as an excuse. Instead, I quickly realized that in order to be financially successful, I was going to have to apply myself in other areas and do things that had nothing to do with a library! You don’t get a degree and think your education is over. Education is a continuing process. Therefore, I have read over 4,000 books since I got my degree. I have listened to 5,000 hours of audio and watched that much educational video. I still read every day to make sure I am current on what my audience wants from me. In my world, my audience is both my customer and my employer. This concept must apply to everyone in the workplace. I continue to learn so I will have something of value to offer my employer and my customer. Everyone must ask themselves if they are doing the same thing.
What are you reading? What are you watching? What are you listening to? Will it make you a better employee? employer? manager? salesperson? janitor? or will it only entertain you and leave you as stupid as when you started?
Before you blame your degree for your success or lack of it, go to the mirror and take a good hard look at yourself and answer those questions. Then you will have a clue as to why your life looks like it does.
Larry Winget
Larry said it better than I could have said it myself. I appreciate him taking the time to respond to my email.
—
ON A SEPARATE NOTE: If you are on FACEBOOK, be sure to sign up as one of my friends AND join to the Larry Winget Unofficial Fan Club. I don’t have anything to do with the fan club but I joined it anyway! I am brand new to FACEBOOK and think some people on there really need to get lives, however, it’s a fast way to distribute information to everyone about things that are going on. So sign on and I’ll do my best to notify all of my friends on there of upcoming television appearances.
Larry,
Absolutely spot on! I had read something similar to that in one of your other books; I think it was “It’s Called Work for a Reason”.
I currently don’t use my degrees in International Business and Hotel & Restaurant Management; I am Health & Fitness and Goals Achievement coach. However, the skills that I have obtained during the pursuit of my education are invaluable for me today.
I just hope Poor Boomer sees ‘the light’ so to speak and is able to find his way.
Cheers,
Coach Joe
Hi Mr. Winget:
I can understand the frustration some graduates may feel, but I think you are spot on about the “life skills” that one obtains from going through the grueling life of a traditional education. The accomplishment alone says so much about a person’s character to a business owner and can give great confidence to the graduate regardless of where she/he chooses to take the academic training.
For me, I couldn’t find what I wanted to study, so I joined a special program and made up my own degree with a double major that required a lot of extra work, but the discipline was worth it and has served me as I grow my business.
It’s beautiful that we can pave our own way in life rather than be boxed in by the title of our academics. Here’s to thinking outside the box!
Happy New Year,
Vickie
It burns me to know end to hear a college graduate whining about not being able to get a job.
WHAT????? Attend school for 4 years spending who knows how much $$$ which is either loans or parents and complaining about being stuck at minimum wage?
Where, McDonald’s. Not exactly job glam but the upper management of McDonald’s started out asking “Fries with that?” This weasel expects just because he/she had nothing better to do for 4 years but to listen and re-puke information issued by someone with even less incentive than them, they deserve a job?
Here is a suggestion. Join the military. Three hots and a cot and somebody tells you what to do. Show a little initiative and they will let you have the opportunity to lead others. You learn real useful job skills like initiative, delegation, responsibility , organization, and more.
Wait, even Dairy Queen will give the same opportunity if you just apply yourself.
If one receives from a formal education the ability to think and continue to learn then it is not time or $$$ wasted. But if one expects the education to be an end in itself then it is a fools errand. Today’s job market requires a new hire to be retrained with updated skills as a minimum every 5 years.
The US is facing a shortage of skilled workers. A skilled worker with a college degree could write their ticket. But most of the liberal art weasels would never consider taking a apprentice or entry level position to learn a skill for 2-3 years.
This is below them. After all they spent 4/5 whole years in college!
What WOULD be useful would be if colleges at least taught their graduates how to actually write. It never fails to irritate me that someone can get a degree but still have no clue how to use a comma or how to write with clarity and brevity. (My own written English is hardly perfect, but at least it isn’t insultingly bad, and it generally makes sense on the first reading.)
The good news is that writing to an acceptably professional standard isn’t exactly that hard. There are plenty of books, websites and adult education classes to help you figure out how to do it. So why don’t people take advantage of these learning opportunities?
Oh Cliff, you said exactly what I feel so often in reading people’s emails and posts. Especially professional emails or in posts when people are insulting or ranting about another person’s short comings and are inevitably only exposing one of their own flaws. Thank you!
I don’t feel sorry for anyone who cries whoa-is-me for having a degree and working a minimum wage job. Education is not what gets a person to the career level they want to achieve. It helps to have at least a Bachelor degree completed to land several jobs but many times personality, motivation and self promotion are what win positions. What you believe you are capable of achieving will determine where you land. You want more, then believe you deserve more and get off your behind and go after it.
Two items come to mind; especially with a liberal arts degree.
One: Lliberal arts “because I lacked the funds for Law School”; another sad cop out. No thinking skills of personal assessment in order to make a deliberate choice so you took the easy road? ….SUCKS TO BE YOU!
Two: Try the Jesse Jackson school of “Victimology” he has made a good living telling the world how we are all victims.
Oh yeah still sucks to be you………..
Opportunity is often overlooked because of the disguise it uses: it looks like WORK!
Larry,
I have an associates in Business Management, yet work as a personal trainer. Years ago, I got this position, WITHOUT a national certification. I got it through hard work and sacrifice. I am one of the top trainers in my region, and my supervisor has said that I am making more than her. HOWEVER, I will be getting that Certification this year. You’ve taught me Larry that an education is a continuing process and not a piece of paper. Thanks
College used to be a place where people could, would, learn about the larger world. I’m concerned that a college education has now become an entrapment for those who can’t see beyond their “degree”. College is all about exposure to new things, exciting things, challenging things. It’s a place to “think” about things and experiences in a new way and tell you that there is a whole world of opportunities out there if you just look for it.
I was educated to be a nurse, but for reasons beyond my control, I am unable to work on a unit at this time. So I write. And I work on behalf of troubled children. And I look to the future.
Anyone, degreed or not, needs to look inside themselves and determine to become more than they have been.
I don’t know, Larry… I often wonder why people do degrees in useless and self-absorbed subjects, like philosophy. I’m not saying one should not *learn* something about philosophy, but taking a class or two and independently reading is the extent of what you’d need. An entire four years in college to end up with a degree that has no practical application is kind of a waste of time and money. Unless of course your goal is to be a philosophy professor. Otherwise, you’re leaving college with the ability to gaze at your navel, but not a lot else. Education is too expensive in these times to spend four years learning to be philosophical, and then not being qualified for any real-world job. Last I heard, being a philosopher didn’t provide much of a living.
Or maybe I’m just a bi**h today… I’m quite open to that verdict.
I agree that minimum wage jobs are starting points. I also agree that with a good work ethic you can even advance from those positions. My daughter works at McDonalds during college breaks. She’s such a good employee that she’s been promoted and they keep asking her to enter into the management training program. All it takes is working hard and showing some initiative.
On another note: I lost my job once and took a job making much less money. I used that lower paying job to learn a new skill. Once the skill was mastered, I was able to take a better paying job. I have been at the higher paying job for 9 years now. I’ve been promoted and have had good raises. So, sometimes making less with a goal towards the future can work out.
Larry, I’m going to stick part of your reply into my handouts for my college computer graphics classes. It may not have much to do with computer graphics, but a lot to do with right attitude to succeed in school and in business. And a lot of my youngish students need a serious wake up call.
Yep. My ivy league bachelor’s degree wasn’t in the field I’m working in. I’m teaching computer graphics, thanks to a graduate degree that was the paper certification, but more thanks to working in the field at a variety of journalism and computer jobs, starting from the bottom and working my way up. And by bottom, I started off working for a small community paper with a salary that, divided up by the real hours I put in, was less than minimum wage. But I worked hard at learning the craft, always moved on and up, and now I’m doing OK. But it took years of work. I was never satisfied. The original complainer has one thing going for him: he’s not satisfied with his lot in life. But he needs to pick it up and use that negative emotion and turn it into a positive one. People sense negativity and are repulsed by it.
This sounds like I’m Miss Goody Two Shoes, but I’ve been there. Been so much into debt I didn’t know how to pay it off. Failed in a business venture. Got divorced. Blew a reliable job with no prospect in sight because of the emotional spillover from the divorce. Things sucked and I was overqualified for a lot of work considering my humanities degrees. But what the heck. You pick yourself up, realize that simply being alive is better than being dead, and apply yourself. Be grateful for a start, move up and on, and, don’t goddamn expect anything on a silver platter. Once you realize that, your whole attitude changes and if you are lucky (luck usually in business comes from hard work, not the other way around), you survive. And maybe you do well.
But a college degree doesn’t mean anybody needs to give you a free handout or a great job. It’s only a foot in the door.
As a librarian, I am delighted to learn that your degree was in Library Science. Many of the people who graduated with me are not necessarily working in the library field either; as you say, education is a continuing process.
May I quote some of your views on reading on my blog?