I do. I care a lot. Hopefully you do too. Most don’t though. Oh they say they do, but they don’t really. People talk about who they like, who they can’t stand, who “if they get the nomination, I’m switching parties”, who is an idiot and on and on and on. But you know what? 40% of people who could vote are not even registered and only half of the ones who are registered vote! This ticks me off. I know who I am voting for. I know why. Half of you will think I’m wrong. I don’t care. I will also think you are wrong. I hope you don’t care either. If you vote, I’m happy with anything you decide to do. People say they want a better government but I think they are liars. Yep, liars. They want a better government but they don’t want it enough to get off their big fat butts and do something about it. That makes them lazy liars. I think George W. Bush is the biggest idiot to has ever held the office of the presidency. Without exception. He is a liar and a dim bulb at best. He is a nimrod who combines arrogance and ignorance – a lethal combination for sure. I have every right to say this stuff because I voted against him. I earned the right to complain. He has an approval rating of less than 30%. But sadly that isn’t fair to him. Because many of the people who disapprove didn’t vote. How can you disapprove if you didn’t vote? In my books, you can’t. (And I guess what makes me the most upset is that a third of Americans think he is doing a good job.) I don’t care how anyone votes. I really don’t. I would love to see the election go my way but if it doesn’t, I will live with the results. Afterall, Bush wasn’t elected the first time by a majority of anything and I have lived with him for the past eight years. I can do it again if I have to. My point is simple: vote. Vote for anyone you want to and for any reason you have. But do it.We salute the flag – brag that America is the greatest country on earth – and we talk a good game when it comes to patriotism – but unless you PRACTICE democracy by voting, you don’t deserve to enjoy it.Hope this rattles some cages.
Amen, brother!! If you are not part of the process, you shouldn’t expect to have any say. If you don’t vote, keep your mouth shut for the next four years because you’ve forfeited your right to complain.
And I agree one million percent about the current occupant of the White House.
PLEASE vote and don’t take your democracy for granted.
Canadians care about American politics too.
Hmm, Larry.
Have you considered that it is those who vote who have no right to complain and those who don’t who do?
Suppose someone sets up a big game that lots of people wish to participate in, i.e., they accept the rules of the game. Part of the rules say they get to force you to participate, whether you want to or not, whether the game reflects your values, or not. Do they really have grounds to complain about outcomes in a game they willingly participate in, and don’t you have grounds to object to being forced to play?
I don’t vote, and I don’t do so out of a sense of principle. Your affairs are none of my business, and I wouldn’t think in a million years to force my designs upon you. Getting several tens of millions to see it my way, or joining their way doesn’t magically make your life and what you produce suddenly at my disposal, because I’m backed with larger numbers. In short, I’d never do that to you, man.
And besides, when we wake up election day, you having voted and me having not, we’ll still have the same president, as foreboding as that seems to me.
Democracy is merely a clever way for a couple of wolves and a sheep to work out what’s going to be for dinner. It’s one giant cannibal pot, turning on who gets thrown in, and who gets to feast. It’s despicably immoral from top to bottom and wall to wall, and I’ll never agree to participate.
If the millions of people like you actually voted, perhaps we wouldn’t wake up with the same president.
Your analogy makes no real sense. No one “forces” you to participate, but if you don’t, you don’t have a say or a part in what eventually happens in the “game.” You can sit there and complain all you want, but if you didn’t even bother to get off your butt and make an effort to affect the outcome, you have *nothing* to say… because if you didn’t care enough to get involved, you shouldn’t care afterwards. To say that people who didn’t participate in something have more right to complain about the outcome than people who did… that’s just a desperate and convoluted attempt at justification.
“No one “forces” you to participate”
Oh really? You obviously haven’t seen my multiple-5-figure tax bills. What do you suppose would happen if I didn’t pay them? If you don’t call that “force,” then you’re simply not dealing in reality and my only recourse is to dismiss you out of hand as somewhat lunatic.
…Oh, and how about the $150,000 in attorney fees last year, just so I can manage to operate a business through the regulatory minefield?
Richard, If you didn’t live in the greatest country in the world, you would’t have a 5 figure tax bill to pay in the first place-DUMB ASS!
Why don’t you get your crap and move to Bumblank Egypt if you don’t like this country enough to participate in our greatest civic duty. Let me guess….. You don’t agree with jury duty either. Get a life pothead. God Bless
Um, we were talking about VOTING here, not the obviously deep-seated tax-resentment issues that appear to consume your being to the point of not even realizing that it’s a separate subject entirely, and this particular column is not the proper forum to be ranting about it.
“[Your] only recourse” is to dismiss me out of hand? And *I* sound like a lunatic?! Chill, Clarence Darrow. None of us likes paying taxes. Trust me. Even though I’m a lunatic.
“Richard, If you didn’t live in the greatest country in the world, you would’t {sic} have a 5 figure tax bill to pay in the first place-DUMB ASS!”
Oh, really? You clearly don’t know about the five years I lived in Japan, or the two years in France. But maybe you’ve never ventured outside your own neck of the woods and think that only Americans can and do build wealth or produce things. You’re probably one of those touchingly naive sorts who believes you live in the “Land of the Free.” — http://tinyurl.com/ypc5n5.
“Greatest country in the world,” eh? — http://tinyurl.com/yuxbr2. Yea, that’s saying a LOT. And I’ve got about two thousand more where that came from. How about you go onto YouTube and instead of searching for funny videos, you do something serious like search “police brutality” and have yourself a look at your “greatest country.”
What made America great was an idea — the idea that any government, such as it is, is subordinate to individual rights. Not “the people,” not “the majority.” Individuals. I don’t find many who are even aware of the distinction, anymore, much less comprehend it.
“Why don’t you get your crap and move…”
Ah, the Spiro Agnew charge (go ahead, Google; I’ll wait)…. It always comes down to that with people like you, like you own the place.
“…greatest civic duty”
Ah, the ignominy of it all? AMERICANS; and the “greatest” political statement they can imagine themselves making is to go into a pathetically flimsy booth once every two to four years and have their one in 300,000,000th say in their own affairs.
Disgraceful.
“Um, we were talking about VOTING here, not the obviously deep-seated tax-resentment…”
Ah, a distinction without a difference. From where do you believe that the heads of State presume their moral authority take from you what you have produced? Why is it that you suppose the calls to “get out and vote” are so frequent and feverish. How righteous do you suppose they’d feel if they held and election and nobody showed up?
Side note: taxation at all levels, combined is the single largest drain on wealth in America, not even close, and it’s off-topic in a forum dedicated to personal finance?
None of this is original, by the way, nor is it like it wasn’t forseen 200 years ago. Ever read any Bastiat? – http://tinyurl.com/ztcv2.
“If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?” — from The Law
“Life, faculties, production — in other words, individuality, liberty, property — this is man. And in spite of the cunning of artful political leaders, these three gifts from God precede all human legislation, and are superior to it. Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” — from The Law
“Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.” — from Government
“But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them, and gives it to other persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime.” — from The Law
“Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.” — from The Law
“[The socialists declare] that the state owes subsistence, well-being, and education to all its citizens; that it should be generous, charitable, involved in everything, devoted to everybody; …that it should intervene directly to relieve all suffering, satisfy and anticipate all wants, furnish capital to all enterprises, enlightenment to all minds, balm for all wounds, asylums for all the unfortunate, and even aid to the point of shedding French blood, for all oppressed people on the face of the earth.
Who would not like to see all these benefits flow forth upon the world from the law, as from an inexhaustible source? …But is it possible? …Whence does [the state] draw those resources that it is urged to dispense by way of benefits to individuals? Is it not from the individuals themselves? How, then, can these resources be increased by passing through the hands of a parasitical and voracious intermediary?
…Finally…we shall see the entire people transformed into petitioners. Landed property, agriculture, industry, commerce, shipping, industrial companies, all will bestir themselves to claim favors from the state. The public treasury will be literally pillaged. Everyone will have good reasons to prove that legal fraternity should be interpreted in this sense: “Let me have the benefits, and let others pay the costs.” Everyone’s effort will be directed toward snatching a scrap of fraternal privilege from the legislature. The suffering classes, although having the greatest claim, will not always have the greatest success.” — from Journal des Economistes
“Either fraternity is spontaneous, or it does not exist. To decree it is to annihilate it. The law can indeed force men to remain just; in vain would it would try to force them to be self-sacrificing.” — from Journal des Economistes
“When under the pretext of fraternity, the legal code imposes mutual sacrifices on the citizens, human nature is not thereby abrogated. Everyone will then direct his efforts toward contributing little to, and taking much from, the common fund of sacrifices. Now, is it the most unfortunate who gains from this struggle? Certainly not, but rather the most influential and calculating.” — from The Law
“It seems to me that this is theoretically right, for whatever the question under discussion — whether religious, philosophical, political, or economic; whether it concerns prosperity, morality, equality, right, justice, progress, responsibility, cooperation, property, labor, trade, capital, wages, taxes, population, finance, or government — at whatever point on the scientific horizon I begin my researches, I invariably reach this one conclusion: The solution to the problems of human relationships is to be found in liberty.” — from The Law
“Try to imagine a regulation of labor imposed by force that is not a violation of liberty; a transfer of wealth imposed by force that is not a violation of property. If you cannot reconcile these contradictions, then you must conclude that the law cannot organize labor and industry without organizing injustice.” — from The Law
“They want a better government but they don’t want it enough to get off their big fat butts and do something about it. That makes them lazy liars. ”
The unstated premises are, a) “doing something about it” requires voting, and b) it is possible to bring about better government through voting.
I care, too, but I believe that both are false, and you are as wrong as you can be on this.
That said, your financial advice looks intriguing, and I look forward to reading it more in depth.
I wonder where people like Brian would have suggested Frédéric Bastiat go, back in his day.
Larry? LARRRRRRYYYYY!!! MAKE IT STOP!!!
Dude, we all hate paying taxes. But you’ve now not only taken this particular column wildly off-topic with your obsessive rantings, but you’ve taken it over completely. We get it, you’ve made your point… you’re a libertarian and you know how to cut and paste from Wikipedia. Good for you, we wish you all the happiness in the world. Now please just knock it off.
Laurie, Well Said!!! Dude, why don’t you just relax and quit getting your panties in a wad. Scope up! Let’s move on please. Thanks
Interesting exchange here but I just wanted to say that I am a late-comer to this site and enjoy your candor, Larry. McCain could use straight-talk reminders. Keep on ranting–there isn’t enuf of it.
Aloha, Annie
“LARRRRRRYYYYY!!! MAKE IT STOP!!!”
Yea, that’s exactly how he teaches you to handle your own affairs and the messes you get yourself into.
I can’t help you. I can point you here and there. I can tell you how I built a company, built some wealth, and how it’s inexorably linked to thinking for yourself, and not with the crowd (like a voter), but I can’t make it stop.
Larry can make it stop, here (a simple request from him is all it would take). Will he? You’re obviously unfit for the real challenge in ideas and words, but maybe Larry will hear your cry for help.
“Let’s move on please.”
Nobody in the world is stopping you from doing just that, Brian. Except perhaps yourself.
Why do you blame others?
Richard. Stop. This is a blog for people to respond to MY opinions. I welcome people to voice theirs, but the infighting gets old and serves no purpose. The blog is to stimulate thought. But this is ridiculous.
Richard, I don’t agree at all with you. I flat out think you are wrong. Voting is our duty. I believe in it and you nor any one else will sway me. I have said what I had to say. One time. You posted FIVE time with your opinion. You have had your say and have been responded to. Let’s give others a chance now.
Good enough for me, Larry. Your blog.
See. That was easy.
An uninformed or misinformed vote is worse than a vote for voting sake. I would rather someone who doesn’t understand economics or government not vote than simply vote because they think it is their civic duty. Their duty is to be informed and then vote.
By the way, we don’t live in a democracy – thank God! We live in a representative republic.
…and apparently you are among the misinformed who buy into the cartoon paintings of the media. I thought you were brighter than that?
Enjoy your business opinions, though.
Chris W.
Voting really is both a privilege and a duty. I lived for 8 years in England, where I was a legal resident, but not a citizen. I was “permitted” to pay half my income in taxes and “national insurance” (like social security, but I will never see a penny of it in my old age… I did get to use the healthcare aspect of it, which rocked), but I was not permitted to vote. I could contribute to the system–more than the vast number of its citizens–but not have a say in it. It was a helpless and frustrating feeling. Once your voice is taken away, you realize how valuable it is.
(I felt that again in 2000, when the voice of the people was ignored. One man, one vote… and whoever gets the most votes wins. That’s how it all should be decided.)
I’d be very surprised if this actually got through Larry the censor, but our votes haven’t counted since 2000 when the Supreme Court decided the outcome of the election. I doubt Bush won in 2004, but the corruption in Ohio wasn’t as played up in the media as it was in Florida in 2000. I wouldn’t be surprised if near election day, just by coincidence, another 9/11 will take place so Bush can declair marshal law and himself president for life in order to “protect” us from the “evildoers”. If you believe your vote still counts I got a bridge to sell you…CHEAP!
Andrew, I haven’t seen Larry censor anything. He may ask people to stay on topic, but that’s not censorship. Even if he did moderate comments, that’s his right on his blog.
I agree with mostly everything else you said. However, what we need is real, transparent election reform. Not voting at all isn’t the way to go. Fixing what’s clearly broken is what we need to do. But what’s your proposed alternative to voting? How do you think we should choose our leader, if you suggest we not vote? I’m not being facetious. I’m just wondering.
I don’t censor. Not my style. I may not like what people say or agree with what is said, but I will VOTE to make sure everyone has the right to say it. I also almost agree with you, Andrew. And while I am not pleased with the way elections are run and I believe there is much corruption and I am still outraged over the 2000 elections, I will still vote. You don’t fix things by complaining. You don’t change things by watching from the sidelines. You have to get involved at some level. Voting is the smallest way possible to get involved…… it is the LEAST any of us can do to still be IN the process. And again, as my original post pointed out, most folks are too lazy to do even that. Some might say they are just too “disillusioned” to vote – and maybe I am disillusioned by the process myself…… but I’ll still be there to cast my ballot all the same.
1. I have posted several ideas that never showed up for the public to read. Of course Laurie couldn’t see it…that’s what censorship is.
2. If the system is corrupt and a vote doesn’t count, then you’re just fooling yourself that your vote makes a difference. The corruption has gone way too far..electronic voting machines with no paper trails, chads, butterfly ballots, etc. Yet, this country points fingers at other countries’ elections!
3. The first step to fixing something is to admit there is a problem to begin with. “Whining” and “complaining” is the process of pointing out problems. It’s really constructive criticism. People who try to belittle others who speak up, by calling them whiners and complainers are part of the problem. Try listening and respecting other people who point out imperfections that need to be addressed. You yourself say “I earned the right to complain”, Larry.
4. “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice”-Rush. A non vote means the 2 choices we get aren’t good enough. Right now we have the evil vs the spineless…a no win situation.
5. “I have lived with him for the past eight years. I can do it again if I have to”
You don’t have to do anything. Looks like YOU are the one sitting back “dealing” with Bush while calling him an “idiot” and complaining about him. Americans, myself included, should have been on the steps of the Supreme Court in 2000 DEMANDING that out votes count. Bush needs to be impeached, not just “lived with”. He stole the elections and he lied us into a war we didn’t need. Voting is good, if it counts, but when it doesn’t, we all need to get up and protest, with letters, signs, marches, petitions or whatever else it takes to have our voices heard. You don’t have to “register” to do that, do you? Only voters are allowed to have opinions?!? Wow, Larry…think it over again. “How can you disapprove if you didn’t vote? In my books, you can’t.”
Larry…one more thing. PLEASE stop saying things that don’t make sense.
For example: I may not like what people say or agree with what is said, but I will VOTE to make sure everyone has the right to say it.”
Nobody VOTES for free speech, It’s #1 in our bill of rights since the day this country was born. Our forfathers were willing to fight to the death for this right, not just “vote”.
or
“I earned the right to complain”.
Free speech isn’t a right you earn. Voters and non voters alike have the same right to free speech. Voters are not some high and mighty citizens over non-voters.
or
“How can you disapprove if you didn’t vote? In my books, you can’t.”
Simple…as a citizen of these United States, you are awarded the rights guaranteed to you by the Constitution. Voting is only one way to have your voice heard by our government.
To answer Laurie’s question: “How do you think we should choose our leader, if you suggest we not vote? I’m not being facetious. I’m just wondering.”
I can tell you how we can choose who ISN’T our leader: Impeachement, letter writing, protests, rallies, media awareness and reporting of facts, public debate, “whining and complaining”, petition signings, lobbying, book writing, song writing, signs, horn honking, phone calls, e-mail, websites, public access TV shows….do I need to go on? There is NO reason why Bush should have the privledge of being in office after what he did. Clinton can get impeached for a (legal) blow – job yet, Bush can start war based on lies?!? WOW
Andrew……I know that free speech is guaranteed by our constitution. I am more than aware. I know what our rights are. However, my point was/is simple: I would VOTE to make sure that our constitution is upheld. No more than that was meant. I know my rights and yours. I am aware of everyone of the bill of rights.
I will take issue with one more thing you said. “Voters are not some high and mighty citizens over non-voters.” Yes we are.
I agree with your point about other ways to have your voice heard. But the most fundamental of those is to vote.
This conversation obviously stimulates a lot of opinions. Good. I knew it would when I wrote it. I only ask that everyone play nice.
Andrew, I’ve done all that. Trust me. I worked my a** off to prevent Bush from being elected in ’04. I worked on a presidential campaign… I wrote letters, made phone calls, went door to door, petitioned, donated, raised money, worked at attended political events, sent emails, blogged, campaigned in other states, attended rallies, marched in the streets… you name it. And yeah, Election Night 2004 deflated me to the point of tears. I felt like the past year and a half of my life had been thrown away, because in the end, there was Bush again. And you’re right, there’s no reason Bush should have won… maybe if MORE PEOPLE HAD VOTED AGAINST HIM, he wouldn’t have.
But at least I know that I stood up for what I believed in–I didn’t just sit there whining and complaining, shaking my fist and criticizing everyone else from the comfort of my easy chair. Anyone can do that. But I got off my behind, took to the streets and WORKED to at least TRY to bring a change. I TOOK ACTION and gave it everything I had. I put my money where my big, fat mouth was.
Can you non-voters say the same?
And Andrew, one more thing… being an adult means knowing that you won’t always get your way. Sometimes you have to be realistic; you have to compromise, and choose the best option of the ones put in front of you. You weigh things up, and think “one of these people will be president. Which one do I NOT want it to be?” Was I crazy about John Kerry? Not in the least. But was John Kerry better than four more years of Bush? THAT was the crucial choice I was making when I went into the voting booth. I was voting AGAINST BUSH. By not voting, YOU CHOSE to give us all another four years of that lying criminal. So you really HAVE forfeited your right to complain about him. You made your choice, and your choice was letting Bush win by not raising the numbers in opposition to him. That’s how the rest of us got stuck with him again. Thanks for nothing, bro.
Under what circumstance would any American have to VOTE to make sure that our constitution is upheld?!? If there was any question at all as to weather our Constitution should be upheld, I doubt any vote could help us at that point.
If you are aware of our right to free speech, please don’t suggest that you somehow need to “earn” that right by voting. You are an author and people pay to hear what you say. We have the freedom to vote or not to vote, to speak or not to speak, to worship or not to worship. Nobody should be punished, or even be considered a lower class citizen, for choosing not to exercise a specific right. This two party system we have is a joke. There are way too many issues to consider to have to chose either left or right.
Laurie: I can’t prove it, but in 2006 Bush stood at a podium and looked dumbfounded at the fact that democrats had won the House and Senate. “I really thought we were going to win” he said. The only way to really think that, is if the election was rigged. I’m sure it was rigged in 2004 as well. Before we go out and blindly vote in November and assume it will be fair, we all should demand that all our votes will count. No more paperless votes, no more allowing the Supreme Court to decide. How is it that banks can process millions of ATM transactions a day with accuracy, but we can’t get an accurate vote count on election day?
For the record: I have voted every year since my 18th birthday. I live in New York, so Bush didn’t have a chance of winning here. With our lovely “Electoral College” system, our votes, don’t really count as much as a popular vote election would.
Andrew… also nothing was made of the fact that in 2003, the head of Diebold said they were going to do everything in their power to make sure Ohio was delivered to Bush in 2004. He sure came through on that promise. And as usual, there were no consequences. Election reform has been thwarted time and time again. But I’m not going to risk handing this thing over to them by not voting. I could never live with myself.
And thank you for voting. I misunderstood your position. My bad. PS: fellow New Yorker here.
Throughout the history of the world, people have died–in various extended and painful ways–just to attain or maintain even a portion of the civil liberties we have. Including the right to vote. I view our freedom as a “use it or lose it” situation. I vote. Sometimes I’m in the voting booth cursing because I have to choose between the least annoying of two people who strike me as hypocrites or liars. But who also promise me some things that I want. And who sometimes deliver.
We don’t have a perfect system. But I’m not going to insult the memory of women who chained themselves to the White House fence just to get me this right. I’m voting.
And as cynical as I may be about the efficacy of our government, about the corruption of Congress, and about the various signs that our country is run by an amorphous group of creeps, all I have to do is take a look at history to know that we have it far, far better than most human beings who have ever lived. Try being a Roman citizen when Nero was running around, lunatic that he was. What we forget is that most of the history of the world is a tale of utter maniacs with absolute powers who get their jollies by murdering helpless subjects. Idi Amin, anyone? It’s still happening today.
So, Larry, I totally agree with you. Choosing is hard. The honesty of elections is often questionable. Still, I’m voting. And I wish all the people who think it’s all rigged would vote also. Make your voice heard. Vote for Donald Duck if you want to. But vote.
What I got out of Larry’s original comments is that we need to be good citizens by being informed participants – how powerful would that be if we all actually did that rather than whine that nothing can be done?
I’m 48 years old and I’ve not missed a chance to vote EVER. But I’ve never in my life seen a worse set of candidates. (I’m a republican that does not like GW or McCain).
I’ll vote. Because it is my right and duty. F#&k anyone that won’t do at least that for their future and their kids future. If you think this country is broken – get off your ass and do something about it BEFORE election time. But always cast your vote.
Some folks have it all wrong. Having a huge tax bill means that you made at least the amount of the tax bill plus some 60% more (if you didn’t get a better accountant and listen to her). Everyone should wish to be in that position.
As far as not voting, it is truly a shame. I not only have troulbe with people not voting but I have even more trouble with uninformed voting. That seems to me to be a bigger problem than not voting. I suspect that the vast majority of voters fall into the category of what I call uninformed voters. They really do not know what the canidates stand for but simply vote the way someone suggest they vote.
Larry, for the most part your article is right on. And it seems like it has the additional benefit of getting some people to think. What an accomplishment.
Thanks Larry, old friend! Great blog post.
Alrighty now people. The point is simple….”vote”. If you don’t vote, don’t complain. If your party does not win, it was meant to be with the support of the voting parties. I know who I will vote for today, but tomorrow may change. No one knows what the next day will bring in the political world, so no need in getting your panties in a wad just yet. Just keep listening and learn.
Larry,
For a man that I have found to be a pretty solid, independent thinker it seems this one has you right in line with the rest of the lemmings that believe they have any say in what happens with the government. It’s the dance trance . The beat goes something like, DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM, INDEPENDENCE, CHANGE, LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD, PATRIOTISM, I voted so I can complain… dah, duh, DOH!
The dance goes on and on and then, when the dance is over, they go to their offices in Washington and do whatever the hell they please while the “voters” get to bitch and whine? I really couldn’t care less what they do anymore. I have voted too many times for a candidate based on the spewing of ideals only to realize it was a complete waste of my time and energy to give any of it any thought in the first place.
I’m no longer dancing to the beat of that drum.
The U.S. can spend millions on trying to find out why a professional baseball player was using a certain drug, and for what purpose? All the while our brothers, and sisters are fighitng a war with ill equipted vehicals that offer very little protection against our foes. Where are their prorites, and where is their purpose? Yes take the time to vote, and have your say. Urraahh
Wow, Larry, you certainly have touched off a multi-faceted debate here. . .what’s next — sex or religion?
I look at it two ways.
One the one hand, I vote. Every time. It is my civic honor, not a “duty”, to do so.
On the other hand, I’m against blanket campaigns to get others to vote. Too many people are either too stupid or too ignorant, or too passionate about a particular party, candidate or issue in my opinion. I don’t want to “Rock the Vote”. I don’t want to “MoveOn”. I don’t need nuts like ACORN and I don’t care if “America Votes”. In this great republic, if you don’t wish to flex your voting muscle — fine with me. My vote counts more.
I do not fully agree with your opinion of Bush. His predecessor was worse. Most of the accomplishments during his terms (an almost balanced budget, welfare reform) were the work of Newt Gingrich and company, and were fought tooth and nail at the executive level. Bush, however, IS clueless about foreign policy and extremely arrogant and only won because of people like me who voted for him but did so as the best of two evils. If the Dems had produced someone moderate, they would have won in 2004. Kerry-Edwards was the best they could come up with??? An effete hard-core left coast liberal and an attorney who got wealthy off of medical lawsuits. Sorry, I couldn’t risk either being in charge of nominating the next Supreme Court justice. So go ahead and blame me for putting him back in, but at the same time thank me for saving you from an even worse choice.
If March 4th goes the way I expect, non-partisan Americans like me will have a lot to think about — and a real choice to make for once. Not the two best possible candidates, but the best candidates available since 1984 or so.
Taxes are the cost of society, however, there is nothing wrong with challenging our ridiculous modern tax system that is at best inefficient and penal — especially to the middle class. I don’t care how we compare to the rest of the world taxwise — we AREN’T the rest of the world. I really like the concept of the Fair Tax and am hopeful that it will continue to gain momentum(and yes I’ve read the oppositions’ material, too, so don’t bother retorting and regurgitating stuff I’ve already read and thought about).
One point of clarification — we are NOT a democracy and hopefully never will be. We are a federalist republic, and yes, there is a difference, and yes, those words have meaning beyond mere semantics.
Here is a novel thought: The quagmire in Iraq is not Bush’s fault. The mess this economy is in has nothing to do with George W Bush. The sagging health insurance situation and the rising costs of staying well is not the result of anything that the President has done or not done. You want to know who is to blame? No, you probably don’t. You think it’s someone else, don’t you? You think that because you disagree with everything that is being done, everything that has happened, everything that has led to your slumping economic prospects…that it has everything to do “others” and not YOU. Hard to accept? Of course it is. But every one of US has to take a piece of why the USA is hurting. Because none of the Boomers ever wanted to make a sacrifice…None of the sons/daughters of the “greatest generation” wanted to step up and take ownership of the dirty work that it takes to keep things moving forward…. WE wanted our rising incomes, our dual income families, our new cars, our fancy homes, our designer clothes, our technology… WE never accepted that a country requires wealth (savings) to grow and prosper… WE never accepted that sacrifice is part of growing… WE never accepted that our children need to be handed a planet, a country, a community that has VALUES… WE needed to have hard decisions handled by trial lawyers (the lowest form of life on the planet)…But WE will be the first to bitch when things are not on an upward trajectory… SO get over it all you whiny middle aged, self-righteous, morally bankrupt and teetering-on-the-brink-of-impoverished-if-your-paycheck-goes-away Democrats, Republicans or Independents… We made a mess… Voting or not voting… WE ran up a bill our kids can’t ever pay… So go drink your latte and complain about how much the diabetes medicine costs… HONEST TO GOD.
This blog has certainly gotten people fired up. John, you asked what’s next? Sex? Religion? Okay, it’s a deal.
Sex………… for it!
Religion………against it.
Don’t write me on this one. I don’t feel like explaining it. I didn’t say I was against God, or spirituality or love or charity…… I said religion…… there is a HUGE difference. Read Shut Up, Stop Whining & Get A Life where I explain the whole thing.
I don’t think a product or service should be provided at the barrel of a gun. That’s what people who do business as government do. Taxation is theft at gun point for services. So, I refuse to support government and I won’t vote either. Do I have a “right” to complain? I don’t care. I just want to be left alone. It’s not right to force your views on me and that’s what voting does. What about all of us who don’t want your corrupt government? The ends do not justify the means, i.e., services like roads, etc do not justify violence. These things can be provided without violence (i.e. government). Taxation is violence and that’s how these sociopaths who call themselves government get paid. When more people realize all this then perhaps things will change. It’s called a paradigm shift. Think about it. “Rights” don’t come from a sheet of paper called the “constitution,” either. We have them because we are human, no matter what pretended “country” you’re a part of.
“Voting”
From the land down under.
In Australia it is compulsory to vote, this does not result in a better government it just means that you get more donkey voters (they vote for the person at the top of the list).
If you do not like what the elected government is doing you need to become more involved than just voting. Voting is just the first step.
We all must remember if you live in any of the western country, even with all their failing, they all have a much fairer systems then is being offered by many others.
Expressing an opinion is one thing being actively involved is another.
I have this belief that we are ruled by minorities, good or bad, because they are the ones that are willing to place their beliefs on the line and do more than just talk about it.
In my experience with all the things that I have become involved with, that it is always the same small groups of people involved.
I do not have the time for people who complain to me. I ask them what are you doing about it, most will reply, “nothing”. Larry you book tittle is what I have always said to them. Shut up, stop whining & get a life.
Two quick reasons to confirm we are living in the best country in the world. Ever heard of the gate test? See which way all the people would run if they pulled up all the gates in this world. __________ Dream! There is only one country that fills in that blank!!! American. Yes, America is truly the land of the free and the home of the brave. Remember, loyalty is a two way street in all relationships. In sales, if you sell a product you don’t believe in, you are a con man. What are you when you live in a country you don’t support or believe in?
All I can say is “If your gonna die, die with a Sonic Drive in #2 Cheeseburger in your hand!”
Ian…you hit the nail on the head. Voting is the most basic form of involvement. Getting involved, dedicating one’s time and effort, sacrifice is too much to ask of those who would rather sit around and complain about how everything is so screwed up. If more people got involved to affect every level of government (local to federal), we would see amazing changes.
Of course, most people are adverse to change. Change is scary. Change is a jump into the “unknown.” Most people would rather sit back and complain.
Please vote…if you don’t like the choices on the ticket, become a candidate or get a person to run that you would trust as your representative. We have the opportunity to do just that. We live in an amazing place that give us choices to personally have an impact on what happens in our government, our lives. Where else in the world can you do that as freely as America?
Atlas Shrugged? Oops, am I allowed to ask?
Larry, you are allowed to say that……..
different Larry by the way folks.
Dick Cheney, a PUBLIC SERVANT, was recently told in an ABC interview that most of the American public want our troops home. His response: “So”.
Vote all you want…so?
Why is it the Congress and Senate are getting a pass from judgement? There has been a democratic congress and house for over a year and they have not done anything they promised. I feel betrayed by those we voted in to change the mess I felt GWB put us in and they have done NOTHING!!! I am fed up with our elected officials period and do think we all need to take a stance against the career politicians on both sides of the isle. We need to vote for new ideas and leaders who want to create discussion, bills and legislation for the improvement of our country nto to improve there position of power. I am blaming all of Washington for the issues we are now faced with and I am holding us the American people to blame for letting them remain in office year after year. You know whom I speak of: McCain, Lott, Kerry, Kennedy, etc, etc. They are in office year after year looking for more power and influence, living off of America, not taking responsibility for there records or actions and passing blame onto others so they can remain in office. When are we all going to smarten up and stop listening to the garble, garble of these politics as usual parasites. I look at who we are faced with to vote for I know I won’t be voting republican, but I look at what my party is offering and I am just sick to my stomach. Do we vote for someone who is constantly caught in lies and distortion such as Clinton, or do we vote for a man whose values and principles are shaped by the teachings of a racist minister who hates white people with a passion.
We are seeing a disaster waiting to happen with all presidential choices and because of our willing to drink the kool-aid of the career politicians we now find ourselves having to vote for bad, badder and worse. Oh yes I know Obama is new blood with hope and change. He has zero experience and has no record to back up all his hyped rhetoric. It sounds sweet, he delivers it smoothly, but there is nothing to support it.
You can continue to push blame where you desire Larry, but it surprises me you do not require the whole establishment to take responsibility, and us the voters (although I think maybe you have by calling the voters to task for not voting). I am one person who thinks Pres. Bush deserves credit for the mess we are in, but so does the several hundred senators and congressman who do nothing they say they will. I say stand up people and vote out all the long sitting politicians and let’s get new blood and ideas into office and start shaping policy for a better and stronger America.
We do not live in a democracy, we are a representative Republic. And President Bush is certainly not the worst President to hold office. For someone a learned as yourself you should take into account the Carter administration, “Let them wear sweaters” is not an answer to high energy costs. You must always remember Franklin Pierce, who spent most of his time in office fishing. High energy cost is all of our faults, that is if you voted for tree hunging senators and congressmen who refuse to drill our own oil.
Nope, sorry Paul – you can’t win this one at least with me – President Bush is THE WORST PRESIDENT TO HOLD OFFICE. Without exception. And as far Franklin Pierce . . . better to go fishing than to involve us in a war based on lies.
Larry I agree with your stance on voting.
If all of the people who did not participate decided to then the policy and policy debates would be changed considerably.
If you don’t believe me just think about the elderly.
They have little to offer society anymore yet BOTH major parties court them and offer all kinds of goodies……WHY?!?
Because they vote. They ALWAYS vote….politicians need them.
Simple as that.
Do politicians need YOUR vote?
If you bothered to participate they would.
Take a note, potheads.
I agree with what Larry says as far as non voting and complaining.
i do however must confess. I myself never have nor will ever vote, unless I see a huge change in our democracy.
I feel and have seen one common factor in politics. each person and there party have there own agenda set for themselves when entering office. They will take care of who took care of them. just like the way the rest of the USA is run. it’s all about who you know.
I really see this as the start of the fall of what used to be the greatest country in the world. and it upsets me. I beleive that Middle class Americans need to get off there asses and overthrow this elitist position that this government takes and by forse, if need be. We outnu8mber them by many and have the ability to do so.